There are two firsts involved in this interview. This the first Ink Spill interview of a New Yorker cartoonist and it was prompted by what I believe to be the first 3-D cartoon in the magazine’s history. The cartoon, appearing in this week’s issue, dated November 26, 2012, is by Bob Eckstein. Bob has graciously consented to my prodding him with a few questions about himself, and the cartoon.
Bob, would you give us a mini-history of how and when you came to be a New Yorker cartoonist?
In 2007, for my birthday, Sam Gross invited me to the cartoon Tuesday lunch. I had befriended him, and the Cartoonbank staff, as I bought a bunch of cartoons for the Intermission section of my book The History of the Snowman. I was a fan of Sam’s (I wrote for National Lampoon while he was there), Charles Addams, and Danny Shanahan, who all appear twice in my book, but I didn’t know about the lunch nor was I a cartoonist, per se. I did occasionally come up with cartoons for the Village Voice, SPY and other magazines but only where I wrote humor columns and only because I would never allow outsiders to illustrate my work. It was a condition I started at Newsday back in 1980s when I realized I needed both incomes to make enough to live on. But I had no interest to cartoon until that lunch and at this point I did not read the NYer except when I needed a filling at the dentist. I did enter the caption contest once, which at the time was once a year (It was a Danny Shanahan with Quasimodo as a doctor. My, “The name rings a bell.” got runner-up.). Only after I ran out of money to spend on the book, which probably exceeded $25,000+ in reprint and quote permission fees, did I fill two empty spaces with two of my own snowman cartoons for my “Intermission” on the nudging of my editor.
So, anyhoo, I enjoyed the lunch, and in retrospect being there the week that Gahan Wilson happened to show up was significant. I grew up laughing to his cartoon collections and meeting him was a big deal. At the end of the fancy exciting lunch I asked Sam about coming back and how to get in on this “thing.” He just said, “Come back next week with 10 sketches.”
Well, I didn’t return. First, I found it too difficult to come up with that many ideas in one week. I didn’t know what I was doing and I decided to call Danny Shanahan, who was and still is a favorite of mine and I spoken to a couple of times before but strictly for business. I (incorrectly) felt after sending some money his way it made it somehow okay. I told him I was contemplating gag cartooning and now looking back, I just wanted him to say, “Oh, how wonderful, you’re going to do great, welcome aboard, etc.” Instead he basically said forgot it, it’s a very difficult profession. That was the extent of my pep talk.
Despite that warning I went in on the second week since the lunch, going into Bob Mankoff’s (the magazine’s Cartoon Editor) office after Sam, who I assume put in a good word for me to Bob. Bob explained it wasn’t necessary to write in big letters “SKETCH” on each drawing. Nor did the captions need to be typeset. Each sketch had a cover sheet like they were finals ready to go to print! Most of them were moronic and too current-eventsy to be useful, like one with a cat on American Idol.
That Thursday Bob left a message on my machine to tell me which one they bought. I told my wife the New Yorker only bought one, sorry. When I returned the next week with the final, I apologized for the others in the first batch being so bad–I assumed that everyone every Tuesday sold a few and I was a big loser. I simply had no idea how difficult it was to get in or how many people submitted, I just didn’t know. I assumed they bought most cartoons, paying like $50 or so a cartoon. But I figured things will pick up and the following week I’d sell two or three, like everyone else. It took a couple of weeks to quickly figure things out…and that my first sale was a fluke, beginner’s luck. It would be almost a year of coming in every week with a batch before I sold my second cartoon. During that time I devoured every book on cartooning and went back and looked at all the NYer issues. My style had totally changed from that first effort which now looks inept. I was also rethinking Shanahan’s warning, kicking myself for not taking it to heart and wondering if I was throwing away my illustration and writing career (I was. I did.).
Your drawing, titled The First 3-D Thanksgiving, is, I believe, the first 3-D cartoon in the magazine’s history (if anyone out there finds another, please bring it to my attention). Is it actually 3-D? If I was wearing 3-D glasses right now, and looking at your drawing, would it be appear three-dimensional?
It works, but not as well as it could, but that is by design. When I showed it to Bob Mankoff, he asked if it worked but then quickly said, “that’s not the point” as we agreed that it was more important for the joke that it was inferred it was 3-D (after Bob shot down my suggestion of placing 3-D glasses in each issue). It is 3-D but we reeled it back. Knowing the reader wouldn’t have glasses, I went for the most readable degree of 3-Ding the cartoon so it still looked like a cartoon and not this heavy ominous image on the page which would have distracted from the joke.
How did the drawing come about? Do you have a special interest in 3-D drawings, movies, etc.?
I do not appear regularly as a cartoonist in the magazine (something I HAVE brought up with Bob), so I try to catch Bob’s attention with ideas that get away from the usual format and Bob has been supportive and receptive to me and my experimenting; I’ve done a lot of cartoons with spot color, cartoons that have no punch-line. I’ve shown him captions that use the F-bomb, cartoons about The New Yorker, captions in Spanish, scratch ‘n’ sniff cartoons…and this 3-D was just one I gave a try. Bob has called my stuff “loopy” which I think is code around the office for “nice try but doesn’t work.” I do want to get in “regular” cartoons and not become the “Weird Al” Yankovic of the NYer cartoonist pool.
I had done 3-D illustrations for Vibe magazine and Sport magazine over twenty years ago so it was on my radar. I don’t have 3-D glasses in my home, which I could have used because I just saw Hugo on Netflix. I do recommend wearing 3-D glasses to get through a family Thanksgiving dinner — you eat less with them on (“I can’t eat all that!”).
We should probably give a shout-out to Norman Rockwell, whose famous 1942 Saturday Evening Post “Freedom From Want” piece is obviously referenced in your drawing. Did you have Rockwell’s work in front of you when you were working on your finished piece?
I had it in front of me, and underneath me, as I did trace most of the guy in the back and then glanced over to draw the rest of the set-up. My initial sketch had the whole family shocked at the dancing turkey but it looked too forced and too different from the Rockwell iconic piece. I realized Rockwell had it right the first time except he forgot the glasses.
And here’s a little something extra as concerns a New Yorker cartoonist and dimensional cartoons:
After seeing Bob’s 3-D drawing, I was reminded of a terrific Otto Soglow book from 1932, Everything’s Rosy. Somewhat “naughty” – the inside flap text suggests the book is “probably not suitable for Sunday School use…” — it came with a “red filter” attached to the front inside cover and the following Notice and Instructions:
The envelope in the front of the book contains one red filter to bring out the double exposure of each picture in Everything’s Rosy….
Instructions For Use of Filter
Hold book in good light.
Look at each picture first with the naked eye. Then lay filter flat on page over picture and look again.